[cod2][cod4]jm_cruise -> CoD4 version out aswell!

[Drofder2004]

Teh reason you get "better" looking maps for CoD2 when looking at CoD4, is nothing to do with any of the theories said, the reasons are clear and simple...

- CoD2 mapping is easier than CoD4
- CoD2 has limited graphical ability compared to CoD4.
(Detail in CoD2 is easier to accomplish)
- Making a good looking jump map in CoD2 could easily be done in a few days, CoD4 would require months.

[Rezil]

- CoD2 mapping is easier than CoD4

Not really. Radiant is the same so the only thing 'harder' would be the compiling process.

- CoD2 has limited graphical ability compared to CoD4.(Detail in CoD2 is easier to accomplish)

True, but that doesn't make it any harder to make detailed maps.

- Making a good looking jump map in CoD2 could easily be done in a few days, CoD4 would require months.

Hahahahaha yeah right. Ok, go make a good looking map in a few days that's at least mid-length.

[Drofder2004]

- CoD2 mapping is easier than CoD4

Not really. Radiant is the same so the only thing 'harder' would be the compiling process.

- CoD2 has limited graphical ability compared to CoD4.(Detail in CoD2 is easier to accomplish)

True, but that doesn't make it any harder to make detailed maps.

- Making a good looking jump map in CoD2 could easily be done in a few days, CoD4 would require months.

Hahahahaha yeah right. Ok, go make a good looking map in a few days that's at least mid-length.

To me, this just shows your inexperience in true mapping.
I see this map in CoD2 and think, ok, its look ok, but that only because contrasting other maps, it is... you look at CoD4 and you expect a lot more...

If you released this in CoD4, would you honestly expect the same amount of praise?

If you seriously think there is little to no difference in mapping for these two games, I would suggest you quit talking and have a go. I have mapped both games for actual gaming maps, and I assure you the level of detail required is far harder to accomplish.
A brush intense map works for CoD2, but not CoD4.

[Rezil]

You said that you can make a good looking detailed map in cod2 in a few days. Have a go at that then.

I thought we were talking about jump maps, of course if you want to make a normal gaming map it's harder to do it in cod4. The fact that they do more and more in modeling programs and less in Radiant along with the fact that they completely revamped the lighting system in cod4(+dx9 only) makes it harder to compare a custom map with a stock one.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

I do agree with you that some people only add some floating problems. There's a few mappers who try to make it natural.

[Drofder2004]

You said that you can make a good looking detailed map in cod2 in a few days. Have a go at that then.

I thought we were talking about jump maps, of course if you want to make a normal gaming map it's harder to do it in cod4. The fact that they do more and more in modeling programs and less in Radiant along with the fact that they completely revamped the lighting system in cod4(+dx9 only) makes it harder to compare a custom map with a stock one.

We are comparing mapping, not maps. The difference in mapping CoD2 and mapping CoD4 is big. for example, you map uses (from what I can see) no terrain/patchs, only brushes. Creating circles and arches out of brushes is hardly "detailed".

And seriously, take a look into backlot_geo.map. Most of that map is radiant mapped, very little is modelled. Infact the only section modelled are foliage, cars and the like.

[Rezil]

Compare newvillers_geo and backlot_geo. You're seriously telling me it's easier to make newvillers(in a few days time no less)?

[waywaaaard]

Of course you need to do much more because you have much more possibilities. Nevertheless in each game you have to afford a lot of time to create a really good map. If you are used to mapping in CoD4 you will become faster in the handling with patches and you have to think a little bit different.
And high expectations are always, at least for me, a motivation to break them

[Hoogie]

This discussion made a weird twist xD
First discussing the map itself then discussing which game is better to jump on and now which game is harder to map on xD

[Rezil]

Rez....I am afraid to say it is fact that to get a good looking CoD2 map is a lot easier than a good looking CoD4 map (by CoD4 map standards).
As Drofder pretty much said, in CoD4 patches are used everywhere, from roof tops to walls, allowing for a much greater level of detail. In CoD2 it is the norm to make almost everything out of brushes, lowering the level of detail.
The point I think Drofder is trying to make is.....

If you spent 10hours on a CoD2 building and 10 hours on a CoD4 building, the CoD2 building would look good whilst the CoD4 building would look like it was lacking detail, simply because of the way the games are.

I'm not denying that you can create a more detailed map in cod4. The fact that cod4 had a radiant brush size of 0.5 should be proof enough that you can make more detailed things in cod4 than in cod2. However, Drofder said that making a detailed good looking map in cod2 in a few days is 'easy', which is simply not true/possible. It also doesn't mean that mapping for cod2 is easy, as Drofder put it. Maybe it's not as easy, but it's certainly not easy.

[Hoogie]

Rez....I am afraid to say it is fact that to get a good looking CoD2 map is a lot easier than a good looking CoD4 map (by CoD4 map standards).
As Drofder pretty much said, in CoD4 patches are used everywhere, from roof tops to walls, allowing for a much greater level of detail. In CoD2 it is the norm to make almost everything out of brushes, lowering the level of detail.
The point I think Drofder is trying to make is.....

If you spent 10hours on a CoD2 building and 10 hours on a CoD4 building, the CoD2 building would look good whilst the CoD4 building would look like it was lacking detail, simply because of the way the games are.

I'm not denying that you can create a more detailed map in cod4. The fact that cod4 had a radiant brush size of 0.5 should be proof enough that you can make more detailed things in cod4 than in cod2. However, Drofder said that making a detailed good looking map in cod2 in a few days is 'easy', which is simply not true/possible. It also doesn't mean that mapping for cod2 is easy, as Drofder put it. Maybe it's not as easy, but it's certainly not easy.

But it's still easier

[Drofder2004]

The hardest part about all mapping is design. If you were to give me a design with detail, I will map that for you in two days of solid work. You then do the same for CoD4, you would require a lot longer.

You seem to have either twisted my words or forgot them altogether.
I said making a GOOD LOOKING, not highly detailed. Obviously I would not make suggestions to making a map of newvillers detail in two days, otherwise I would be expecting more than 16 maps with my purchase...

My statement is as true as it originally was, whether you disagree or not, CoD4 takes a lot more work than CoD2 too create a map of equal relative quality.

[Rezil]

CoD4 takes a lot more work than CoD2 too create a map of equal relative quality.

Agreed.

Can we put it to rest now and comment on the map?

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

This CoD2 map sucks, lack of detail!

[Rezil]

Actually, let's go back to arguing, I prefered that!